Comments on: From Snails to Storms http://bhoffman.edublogs.org/2007/03/06/from-snails-to-storms/ Archaeology Fri, 08 May 2009 21:11:34 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2 hourly 1 By: David Gilbertson http://bhoffman.edublogs.org/2007/03/06/from-snails-to-storms/comment-page-1/#comment-1265 David Gilbertson Sat, 29 Mar 2008 16:39:46 +0000 http://bhoffman.edublogs.org/2007/03/06/from-snails-to-storms/#comment-1265 David Gilbertson writes - When we carried out the original study of morphological variation in the common dogwhelk Nucella lapillus in the early 80s, we went to great lengths to establish that the changes that were being observed in the ancient Mesolithic coastal shell middens were NOT due to changes in coastal configuration compared to the preent day. The ancient (~5000) year old coastal geography of the inner Hebridean island of Oronsay (the west coast of Scotland - find Oban and go south west; and then immediately south of the island of Colonsay: there are a number of Scottish islands named Oronsay) was reconstructed from geomorphological evidence. This coastal reconstruction served to re-inforce the conclusion that the overall mesolithic shoreline was less stormy than today. (see also Paul Mellars (1987)Prehistoric Human Ecology on a Small Island. Edinburgh University Press). The initial investigation was fortunate in the shape and situation of the island of Oronsay; and in the other information available about it (search under Oronsay Fieller, Gilbertson, Olbricht, Jardine). As the commentator above suggests - in this type of study it is vital to establish the coastal geomorphology of the time from independent evidence other than that of the dogwhelk shape, and for this to be used as part of the evidence base used to reconstruct the palaeo-oceanography. It could be that other molluscan taxa might also be sensitive to details of the wave climate - e.g. netted dogwhelks. The subject of palaeostorminess at the coast might also be addressed more directly by investigating the remains of crabs if they occur in number in coastal middens. David Gilbertson writes – When we carried out the original study of morphological variation in the common dogwhelk Nucella lapillus in the early 80s, we went to great lengths to establish that the changes that were being observed in the ancient Mesolithic coastal shell middens were NOT due to changes in coastal configuration compared to the preent day. The ancient (~5000) year old coastal geography of the inner Hebridean island of Oronsay (the west coast of Scotland – find Oban and go south west; and then immediately south of the island of Colonsay: there are a number of Scottish islands named Oronsay) was reconstructed from geomorphological evidence. This coastal reconstruction served to re-inforce the conclusion that the overall mesolithic shoreline was less stormy than today. (see also Paul Mellars (1987)Prehistoric Human Ecology on a Small Island. Edinburgh University Press). The initial investigation was fortunate in the shape and situation of the island of Oronsay; and in the other information available about it (search under Oronsay Fieller, Gilbertson, Olbricht, Jardine). As the commentator above suggests – in this type of study it is vital to establish the coastal geomorphology of the time from independent evidence other than that of the dogwhelk shape, and for this to be used as part of the evidence base used to reconstruct the palaeo-oceanography. It could be that other molluscan taxa might also be sensitive to details of the wave climate – e.g. netted dogwhelks. The subject of palaeostorminess at the coast might also be addressed more directly by investigating the remains of crabs if they occur in number in coastal middens.

]]> By: Patrick Saltonstall http://bhoffman.edublogs.org/2007/03/06/from-snails-to-storms/comment-page-1/#comment-208 Patrick Saltonstall Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:55:10 +0000 http://bhoffman.edublogs.org/2007/03/06/from-snails-to-storms/#comment-208 My shellfish ID is pretty pitiful (basically 'clams', 'mussles', and 'whelks'). But if you have Nucella doen on the Lower Alaska Peninsula then I'm sure we have them on Kodiak. Plenty of clam midden samples from lots of sites to look through too! I do know that James Taylor at University of Washington is examining shells from the Karluk one site (he's interested in isotopes, cold water warm water stuff). Ben fitzhugh (a prof at UW) also examined seasonality of site use by looking at clamshells from the Uyak site. Might give Ben a call at the University of Washington. Most of the Kodiak fauna is there anyway - and Ben might have a student interested in measuring Nucella shells for you. as I said - cool stuff and I am interested in what you turn up. Patrick My shellfish ID is pretty pitiful (basically ‘clams’, ‘mussles’, and ‘whelks’). But if you have Nucella doen on the Lower Alaska Peninsula then I’m sure we have them on Kodiak. Plenty of clam midden samples from lots of sites to look through too!

I do know that James Taylor at University of Washington is examining shells from the Karluk one site (he’s interested in isotopes, cold water warm water stuff). Ben fitzhugh (a prof at UW) also examined seasonality of site use by looking at clamshells from the Uyak site. Might give Ben a call at the University of Washington. Most of the Kodiak fauna is there anyway – and Ben might have a student interested in measuring Nucella shells for you.

as I said – cool stuff and I am interested in what you turn up.

Patrick

]]> By: Shelly Love http://bhoffman.edublogs.org/2007/03/06/from-snails-to-storms/comment-page-1/#comment-203 Shelly Love Wed, 07 Mar 2007 02:23:03 +0000 http://bhoffman.edublogs.org/2007/03/06/from-snails-to-storms/#comment-203 I like the idea of incorporateing a geological survey of the Aniakchak shoreline. Brian, don't you know a geologist who has studied the formation of the Alaskan Peninsula? Maybe I could ask him for some suggestions?I also think it would be of interest to archaeologists and biologists to expand the study (Nucella in the Alaskan Peninsula and Aleutian Islands are poorly understood). Patrick, thank you for your thoughtful reflection. Shelly I like the idea of incorporateing a geological survey of the Aniakchak shoreline. Brian, don’t you know a geologist who has studied the formation of the Alaskan Peninsula? Maybe I could ask him for some suggestions?I also think it would be of interest to archaeologists and biologists to expand the study (Nucella in the Alaskan Peninsula and Aleutian Islands are poorly understood). Patrick, thank you for your thoughtful reflection.

Shelly

]]> By: Brian http://bhoffman.edublogs.org/2007/03/06/from-snails-to-storms/comment-page-1/#comment-199 Brian Tue, 06 Mar 2007 21:22:42 +0000 http://bhoffman.edublogs.org/2007/03/06/from-snails-to-storms/#comment-199 Wow Patrick, you are quick to respond! You are correct about the potential meaning of our results (assuming our study provides any useful information). What we are measuring is <em>Nucella's</em> response to wave action. You're right that we should be cautious about immediately attributing a change in wave energy on Aniakchak's beaches to climate change. What we'll probably need is some additional studies. Do you have <em>Nucella</em> in your Kodiak middens? May be we could get someone to expand this study across the Gulf of Alaska. That could be interesting. Wow Patrick, you are quick to respond!

You are correct about the potential meaning of our results (assuming our study provides any useful information). What we are measuring is Nucella’s response to wave action. You’re right that we should be cautious about immediately attributing a change in wave energy on Aniakchak’s beaches to climate change. What we’ll probably need is some additional studies. Do you have Nucella in your Kodiak middens? May be we could get someone to expand this study across the Gulf of Alaska. That could be interesting.

]]> By: Patrick Saltonstall http://bhoffman.edublogs.org/2007/03/06/from-snails-to-storms/comment-page-1/#comment-198 Patrick Saltonstall Tue, 06 Mar 2007 18:34:57 +0000 http://bhoffman.edublogs.org/2007/03/06/from-snails-to-storms/#comment-198 Cool stuff! Just some thoughts from me. Have you considered that 'storminess' might also reflect changes in coastal geomorphology? Perhaps a higher or lower sea level exposed a shelf that waves are more likely to crash onto? (ie effected the slope angle of the shoreline). Also maybe the creation of an offshore sandy beach decreased 'storminess'? Just some ideas. Patrick Cool stuff!

Just some thoughts from me. Have you considered that ’storminess’ might also reflect changes in coastal geomorphology? Perhaps a higher or lower sea level exposed a shelf that waves are more likely to crash onto? (ie effected the slope angle of the shoreline). Also maybe the creation of an offshore sandy beach decreased ’storminess’? Just some ideas.

Patrick

]]>